MG Mud User | 88f1247 | 2016-06-24 23:31:02 +0200 | [diff] [blame^] | 1 | The question of the Copyright and Terms of Use for the driver is an old |
| 2 | one. Here is what I could salvage from the amylaar-users mailing list. |
| 3 | Important is Jacob's mail I received in 1999 which essentially casts |
| 4 | the current copyright terms in stone. |
| 5 | |
| 6 | -- Lars (not /Lars) |
| 7 | |
| 8 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
| 9 | Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1993 03:11:29 +0100 (MET) |
| 10 | From: amylaar@meolyon.hanse.de (Joern Rennecke) |
| 11 | Subject: LPmud Copyright |
| 12 | To: busey@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (busey andrew), lars@cd.chalmers.se, |
| 13 | croes@swi.psy.uva.nl, gusar@uniwa.uwa.OZ.AU, duening@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de, |
| 14 | jacob@cd.chalmers.se, r_behren@informatik.uni-kl.de, |
| 15 | mud@alijku05.edvz.uni-linz.ac.at, alcaman@cs.tu-berlin.de |
| 16 | |
| 17 | Motivation of this letter: |
| 18 | There seems to be a potential for muds that run on dedicated machines |
| 19 | that charge fees from player to make the mud economically feasible. |
| 20 | The Copyright file says that LPmud can freely used iff it is not for |
| 21 | monetary gain. Now the debate what constitutes monetary gain and if |
| 22 | an individual license is an license to break the copyright, |
| 23 | is an interpretation of the license in Copyright or gives rights |
| 24 | independent the restrictions in Copyright has become a normal flame |
| 25 | war in the rec.games.mud.* groups. That is to say, one of the worst |
| 26 | thinkable. |
| 27 | |
| 28 | To allow muds to charge fees to cover costs, without going through |
| 29 | such debates every time, I suggest to amend the Copyright file |
| 30 | with terms under witch such a mud is considered to comply to the |
| 31 | 'no monetary gain clause' . |
| 32 | |
| 33 | Explanation of the recipient list and some individual messages: |
| 34 | |
| 35 | Busey Andrew: wants to set up a mud that charges fees to cover costs. |
| 36 | If the below rules won't make it into the Copyright, you can regard this |
| 37 | as a license - of course only for the code written by me. |
| 38 | Lars Pensj|: original author. |
| 39 | Please forward this letter to other authors that have contributed to 3.1.2 |
| 40 | who have a say in the copyright. |
| 41 | Felix A. Croes: wrote the non-corrupting indentation code for ed. |
| 42 | Sean A Reith: wrote Mud-sprintf() . |
| 43 | Lars Duening: wrote the Amiga port. |
| 44 | Reimer Behrends: wrote mergesort based sort_array() . |
| 45 | Herp: wrote get_object_actions() . |
| 46 | Jacob Hallen: is one of the people involved with the CD driver; the email |
| 47 | address was in the news recently... |
| 48 | Please forward this letter to the person holding the copyright for the |
| 49 | UDP connectivity(unless it's yourself :-) . |
| 50 | Alexander Weidt: |
| 51 | Please try to forward this letter to my brother... |
| 52 | |
| 53 | I hope to finally get terms which all autors can agree on that can be included |
| 54 | into the Copyright file. I suggest group replies, so that we can get some |
| 55 | kind of discussion going (unless there is immediate approval from all |
| 56 | authors :-) . When you have objections, please try to point out what is |
| 57 | wrong with these terms. Even better would it be if you had a solution |
| 58 | to the problem. |
| 59 | |
| 60 | Joern Rennecke (Amylaar) |
| 61 | |
| 62 | Proposed Terms: |
| 63 | 1. A LPmud may charge fees from players to cover running and machine costs. |
| 64 | 2. Running costs in these terms are the cost for the network connection, |
| 65 | electric power to operate the host machine, wear of backup media, |
| 66 | repair costs for the host machine, and cost for a bank account. |
| 67 | For the costs of a bank account to be considered runnung costs, |
| 68 | they must not habe been considered according to 8. , and the |
| 69 | institute has to be choosen with at least usual consideration on |
| 70 | terms and costs of the account and that there must be no affiliaton |
| 71 | with the institute. |
| 72 | 3. Money to cover running costs for a maximum of 18 month may be accumulated |
| 73 | in advance from fees to smoothe fluctation and to ensure stability of |
| 74 | the mud. The spare money has to be kept separate from personal money |
| 75 | and should be invested in trustee investment if liquidity allows. |
| 76 | If the mud is permanently put down, this money has to be refounded to the |
| 77 | playeres. |
| 78 | 4. Machine costs are costs for buying, installation and upgrade of the host |
| 79 | machine. The costs have to appear on a bona fide purchase / service |
| 80 | contract with a person/institution that is not affiliated with the |
| 81 | person who sets up the mud. |
| 82 | When the host machine is put out of use, or parts of it are removed for |
| 83 | other than technical reasons, are parts are nor re-inserted after the |
| 84 | technical resons for removal and not re-inserting have become void, |
| 85 | the current value of the machine that has put out of use/the removed |
| 86 | parts is to be subtracted from the machine costs. |
| 87 | If thus more money has been paid for machine costs than there are |
| 88 | currently, the surplus amount has to be refounded to the mud players. |
| 89 | 5. The machine cost share in the fee may not be more than 1/2400th |
| 90 | of the machine costs per month. If the mud has less than 100 players, |
| 91 | it may be up to machine costs / 24 / number of players, but not more than |
| 92 | 1/120th of the machine costs per month. |
| 93 | 6. When money has to be payed back to the mud players, only those that |
| 94 | have payed at least once a fee within the last 24 month are to be |
| 95 | considered. For these players, the money is distributed in the ratio |
| 96 | of the all fee shares ever payed to cover machine costs. |
| 97 | 7. All players pay equal fees. |
| 98 | 8. Banking costs that have to be paid by the mud administration and are |
| 99 | immediately connected to incoming money transactions can be subtracted |
| 100 | from the transferred amount before counting it as payment of fees, |
| 101 | provided that the institute was choosen with at least usual |
| 102 | consideration on terms and costs of the account, and that there is |
| 103 | no affiliaton with the institute. |
| 104 | 9. The amount of voluntary donations is unlimited. A donation is not |
| 105 | considered voluntary if it is connected with special features or |
| 106 | favours in the mud other than an hounarary mentioning of the donor, |
| 107 | or if the donor is made to believe that such a connection exists. |
| 108 | Reasonable measures have to be taken that there is no |
| 109 | misunderstanding on this point. |
| 110 | |
| 111 | Comments: |
| 112 | 3. You may not use the money of the mud to bridge personal inliquidity. |
| 113 | Don't gamble with other persons money, e.g. investing it in junk bonds. |
| 114 | 5. Fees should not be arbitrarily raised so that players can be driven |
| 115 | out. I considered a fixed minimal distributen of the costs to be |
| 116 | the best means to codify this. |
| 117 | Absolute figures are bound to become void by inflation. |
| 118 | 6. The 24 month period is introduced to allow to erease records of |
| 119 | clients after two years, and to keep overhead affordable. |
| 120 | 7. We don't want favourites to get a free lift, and others grudgingly |
| 121 | paying extra. If you think somebody needs free access, find someone |
| 122 | who pays for it, or make a found payed from voluntary donations. |
| 123 | |
| 124 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
| 125 | Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1993 17:10:44 +0100 (MET) |
| 126 | From: Lars Pensj| <lars@cd.chalmers.se> |
| 127 | Subject: Re: LPmud Copyright |
| 128 | To: amylaar@meolyon.hanse.de (Joern Rennecke) |
| 129 | Cc: busey@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu, lars@cd.chalmers.se, croes@swi.psy.uva.nl, |
| 130 | gusar@uniwa.uwa.OZ.AU, duening@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de, jacob@cd.chalmers.se, |
| 131 | r_behren@informatik.uni-kl.de, mud@alijku05.edvz.uni-linz.ac.at, |
| 132 | alcaman@cs.tu-berlin.de |
| 133 | |
| 134 | I agree that fix of the copyright is needed. I would prefer to use the |
| 135 | Gnu Copyleft, as I don't care any longer if anyone makes money from it. The |
| 136 | important thing is that it is free, which means noone will be able to make |
| 137 | much money anyway. |
| 138 | |
| 139 | Any thoughts about it ? |
| 140 | |
| 141 | /Lars |
| 142 | |
| 143 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
| 144 | Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1993 20:14:10 +0100 (MET) |
| 145 | From: Jacob Hallen <jacob@cd.chalmers.se> |
| 146 | Subject: Re: LPmud Copyright |
| 147 | To: amylaar@meolyon.hanse.de (Joern Rennecke) |
| 148 | Cc: busey@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu, lars@cd.chalmers.se, croes@swi.psy.uva.nl, |
| 149 | gusar@uniwa.uwa.OZ.AU, duening@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de, jacob@cd.chalmers.se, |
| 150 | r_behren@informatik.uni-kl.de, mud@alijku05.edvz.uni-linz.ac.at, |
| 151 | alcaman@cs.tu-berlin.de |
| 152 | |
| 153 | > Jacob Hallen: is one of the people involved with the CD driver; the email |
| 154 | > address was in the news recently... |
| 155 | > Please forward this letter to the person holding the copyright for the |
| 156 | > UDP connectivity(unless it's yourself :-) . |
| 157 | |
| 158 | I represent everyone involved in the CD driver. The UDP stuff is to be |
| 159 | considered public domain. All other parts are covered by the non-profit clause. |
| 160 | Code origination from me, Johan Andersson (Commander), Ronny Wikh (Mrpr), |
| 161 | Lennart Augustsson (Marvin) is covered by it. We have no intention of |
| 162 | allowing people to charge money for the usage of our driver, or borrowed |
| 163 | pieces thereof. |
| 164 | We consider the acceptance of volontary donations as fair practice, and we |
| 165 | can accept the charging for the use of extra equipment needed to allow |
| 166 | people to access the mud, as long as there is a reasonable way to access the |
| 167 | mud without being charged. (Providing modem access at a cost while allowing |
| 168 | free access over the internet is an example of such a setup.) |
| 169 | |
| 170 | My personal view is that an elaborate setup of terms like the one in the |
| 171 | original letter is unreasonable. It is designed for a very specific set of |
| 172 | circumstances. It is impossible to check and it is very bureaucratic. |
| 173 | It does not have my support. |
| 174 | |
| 175 | Jacob Hallen |
| 176 | |
| 177 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
| 178 | Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1993 23:35:12 +0100 (MET) |
| 179 | From: Multi User Dungeon <mud@alijku05.edvz.uni-linz.ac.at> |
| 180 | Subject: Re: LPmud Copyright |
| 181 | To: lars@cd.chalmers.se (Lars Pensj|) |
| 182 | Cc: busey@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu, croes@swi.psy.uva.nl, gusar@uniwa.uwa.OZ.AU, |
| 183 | duening@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de, jacob@cd.chalmers.se, |
| 184 | r_behren@informatik.uni-kl.de, alcaman@cs.tu-berlin.de |
| 185 | |
| 186 | Lars> important thing is that it is free, which means noone will be able to make |
| 187 | Lars> much money anyway. |
| 188 | |
| 189 | You are speaking about the GD,correct ? Normally, many a site uses an unmodified |
| 190 | GD based upon which is a more or less heavily or not heavily Mudlib. Based upon |
| 191 | this Mudlib is the work of the `wizards' ... Sorry for repeating known stuff. |
| 192 | |
| 193 | This makes most Muds differ from each other. So, the fact that the GD itself |
| 194 | is free, doesn't imply that you won't make money. |
| 195 | |
| 196 | Another point to argue: maintainig a Mud takes time .. a LOT of time. Usually, |
| 197 | doing so is not fun at all. I experienced that the more players you have, the |
| 198 | less fun it is fore the adminstrators. You spend a lot of time coding, |
| 199 | searching and fixing bugs ... and I think, this can be regarded as a |
| 200 | service for players (... and players really can be a pain sometimes ...) |
| 201 | Would it be legal to charge money for that ? |
| 202 | |
| 203 | Another thought: Internet Muds. They run on internet, usually on computers |
| 204 | owned by a school or university, some with, some without the knowledge of |
| 205 | the site adminstrators. Would it be legal to charge money when you run |
| 206 | a Mud on equipment not owned by yourself ? And, even if you own the computer, |
| 207 | do you pay for the internet link ? If not, I fear you must not charge money |
| 208 | for a Mud without speaking with the network adminstrator since you are using |
| 209 | the network components (router/bridges, even cables :-> ...) for free. |
| 210 | |
| 211 | How difficult is charging money in European Muds ? Not that I plan |
| 212 | to do so for HM (it's closed for players currently anyway), but isn't there a |
| 213 | big difference according to the "accounting mechanism" (ugh, bad english :-) |
| 214 | that is used in the States ? I heard that it is much more easy to make |
| 215 | financial transactions within the States. So, I suspect the "Mud money charging" |
| 216 | discussion arrives from the US :-) |
| 217 | |
| 218 | Greetings, Herp (mud@mud.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 219 | |
| 220 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
| 221 | From jacob@cd.chalmers.se Sun Oct 24 17:02:53 1999 |
| 222 | Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin |
| 223 | Subject: Re: Newsgroups |
| 224 | From: jacob@cd.chalmers.se (Jacob Hallen) |
| 225 | Date: 24 Oct 1999 16:02:53 GMT |
| 226 | |
| 227 | In article <380f817d.35916528@news.earthlink.net>, |
| 228 | Lars Duening <lars@bearnip.com> wrote: |
| 229 | >On Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:11:36 -0700, Ilya |
| 230 | ><ilya@spam.free.gamecommandos.com> wrote: |
| 231 | > |
| 232 | >>Hey Lars, what hope is there, if any, of getting |
| 233 | >>something going in the LP world, using LDmud or |
| 234 | >>whatever, that can be used commercially? |
| 235 | > |
| 236 | >Unfortunately only slim hope: the parts written by the Genesis folks |
| 237 | >are definitely non-commercial; but rewriting is difficult because |
| 238 | >nobody remembers _which_ parts are concerned (and mailed requests |
| 239 | >haven't been answered). And I haven't asked the other contributors |
| 240 | >yet, either. |
| 241 | |
| 242 | I have a pretty good idea of who wrote what parts of the early version 3 |
| 243 | gamedrivers. All in all there have been about 30 people involved. Unless |
| 244 | you recode the entire gamedriver from scratch, or build from assembled pieces |
| 245 | with known copyright restrictions, there is no way you can come up with |
| 246 | something that does not infringe on the rights of someone who will not |
| 247 | allow commecial use. |
| 248 | |
| 249 | Jacob Hallén |
| 250 | |
| 251 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
| 252 | |